Using Shock Collars for Dog Training – Is It Ok?

If you need a shock collar to train a dog to sit, down, stay, come, and go to your bed you really suck as a dog trainer.

I’m an owner. We sent our dog to a trainer for e-collar conditioning and behavioral training. I’m hesitant to reply with any greater detail until I understand your use of the term “shock collar,” as opposed to an e-collar because the two are very different things.

I would never use one of those horrible devices on my dog and here’s why – I had an acquaintance who, as a joke, put her dog’s shock collar on. The ensuing shock knocked her on her butt. Not something I would ever think about doing to my dog!

I have never used a shock collar on any of my dogs. I have used in a beeping bark collar briefly on one dog. We only used it for a few days and then we took the battery out. It’s association still kept my dog’s bark level down.

I do not believe in negative training. To me if a dog is being sent home with a shock collar, there should be a requirement that the owner has to put the same collar on their neck and be shocked. Possibly to even work for a whole day and be corrected for different things.

I do understand though where a shock collar would come in handy for the recall. A friend of mine lives in a cul-de-sac right off is very busy street and her dog occasionally gets out and runs straight for the street. I can see how a shock collar would help get her dog’s attention.

I have an uber reactive 82 lb Black German Shepherd who, unbeknownst to me when I bought her, has a HEAVY working line pedigree. She’s my first GSD and I didn’t “know better” when I bought her. ALWAYS check that pedigree! My girl got between me and anyone else at 12 weeks old and would growl. Cute then…now, not so much. BUT, I trained her with the help of a trainer who trained me. That’s what ultimately works. It creates a bond between you and your dog. Having someone else train a dog doesn’t give you that bond that training together does. My dog is still reactive in certain situations, but I have also learned her triggers and her “tells”. She just turned 4 and I can’t imagine my life without her. I opted NOT to train her with fear. A fearful dog can be a very dangerous dog. We were in obedience classes for 4 months and practiced daily. I feel like if you’re not willing to invest the time, you should get a cat or a pet rock. I was fortunate enough to find a trainer that trained until he was comfortable that we had control of our dogs and knew what to do. I live alone so having a dog that looks and sounds like she’d take your throat out isn’t a bad thing. She did get out of the door once when I was talking to someone in the front yard and charged the man and his older, overweight Black GSD. However, as fierce as she looked and sounded, she didn’t touch either one of them and I wrangled her back into the house (she wears a collar now when I’m home JUST in case) and when we got inside she was fully aware that she did something that was undesirable to me. She’s never known a harsh word or a hard hand. She was trained with food and praise and even at 4 years old, we still run drills for about 5 minutes every day. Heel, sit, down, come…its a game for her and she gets a little pinch of a yummy treat and lots of “good girl” from me. I personally don’t believe instilling fear in a dog is a good method of training. It may “work” for some people, but to what end? I don’t have a nervous dog or a dog that fears every time we put on her collar or harness to go for a walk. If I see something that I know will trigger her, we move an appropriate distance away and when she doesn’t react, she hears “good girl!!” Surprising what a little love will do.

As for working with dogs that have been trained with a shock collar, yes, sadly I have worked with many. Most are fearful and shut down, afraid to do *anything*. Doing nothing may look like the dog is behaving, but it’s not. The dog does nothing because doing *something* might get them shocked.

If a professional dog trainer needs a shock collar to teach sit, down, stay, come, and go to your bed then they were probably fired from their burger flipping job.

Thanks for posting such a well-written analysis of how the use of quick-fix shock collars is devoid of the relationship-buidling aspect that makes training a dog so meaningful. There are many force-free methods for teaching a dog not to jump and bark that also build their confidence about how to behave around humans that it’s hard for me to imagine why anyone would use aversive methods at all. The use of force and pain is never necessary in dog training, and the general public just has no clue that shock collars are archaic and cruel. In my opinion, if a person cannot take the time to train their own dog, then maybe they should get a pet who requires less attention! In Switzerland, people have to take a compulsory training course before getting a dog to learn about their care and training, and I think this is necessary in the US considering how many dogs get abandoned at shelters when people realize how much of a commitment having one entails.

THANK YOU for posting. Shock collars/ecollar are the same thing- work on the basis of positive punishment.

People need to know that 99% of behaviors can be solved using positive reinforcement.

I have not used and would never use a shock collar for training. I was surprised to learn that my sister and Brother-in-law did when she got their first dog (to train basic commands as a puppy).

Their dog still displays classic perpetual anxiety and her symptoms are severe (jumps back to heed a command, tail tucked, yawns, licks lips, separation anxiety, submits on her back almost immediately when she comes near a human, and is fearful of dogs she doesn’t know- literally scrambling under something to get away if the dog wishes to play or even sniff). She does listen to any human, though, as you said. Unfortunately, they just tell strangers she is a „big baby“ and sing her praises to everyone for being „well-behaved“.

There is a reason why shock collars and fences (for training and otherwise) are illegal in most European countries.

I admit I was given advice after I rescued an adult dog who pulled at the start of pur walks to get a pinch collar. I did but after a short time I decided put it on to understand the experience and I felt like I was choking -even though only briefly if done with a quick release afterwards as intended. That was the end for us. I felt horrible knowing that I was not simply giving a poke to get her attention but literally constraining her breathing for a short time. Fortunately, I turned back to positive training techniques like those you promote and I did with my first puppy. It worked well. Soon thereafter I learned of your magazine and was forever grateful.

Until we learn otherwise, we are owners sometimes take bad advice based on others‘ experiences. So, thanks for all you do to educate us. I wish we would ban their use in the US but I doubt that will happen.

Isn’t it amazing how people love to call shock collars by some other name — ecollar, stim collar, remote trainer, etc.
I have worked with many dogs that had been previously been trained with a shock collar. The fallout I see most often is fear and unintentional associations that often manifest in shows of aggression. I recently worked with a dog that had associated the discomfort of the shock with a neighbor and the previously friendly, boisterous dog began to aggress towards the neighbor. I am strongly against them.

I agree with you about the dangers of shock collars, but there are some extreme cases where they may be a last resort when it comes to keeping the dog and others safe. We had exhausted every training method and diligently worked with three trainers and still we had a rescue with severe fear aggression, while an absolute dream dog with us and small children, he would rage and attack other dogs and men. Finally, after a dog attack, we were faced with the real possibility that we had to do the responsible thing and put him down. It was heartbreaking. But then we found a compassionate trainer that suggested we allow him to train him for three weeks with a shock collar. His training sessions were filmed and we watched an amazing transformation. I truly believed that our dog learned that so long as he was with us/the trainer and following recall, sit, down commands, he was safe. In other words, while engaged with us, there was no need to attack. Our dogs entire demeanor has shifted and while he’s not perfect and we still must be responsible and diligent, we can recall him if he chases and put him in a calm sit/down when we encounter another dog. Prior to this he would blow up into a full blown and uncontrollable rage. I don’t “like” shock collars and hope to never have to use one again, but this was truly matter of life and death for this dog (and the safety of others) and I would hate to think what would have had to happen had we not tried this one last thing.

At the risk of getting attacked for my opinion, I use an e-collar and I have for years on all of my dogs. If you use it properly you are not “shocking” or “punishing” the dog. In fact, I can’t remember the last time I used the stimulation mode. I use the vibrate mode and the tone signal. You need to understand that in many cases, with hunting dogs, their life depends on being trained efficiently enough to leave a bird and come back upon command. This is what retrievers were born to do, retrieve. And for them to be in the moment, it’s often hard for them to switch gears and turn off the adrenaline rush and leave the bird without a reminder of what their job is. In a field with humans and guns, it is much more important they obey then if you are at a park. So I believe you have to consider the application. I read the article and understood it to be in reference to simple, everyday obedience training. In which case, no, you should not shock your dog for not sitting! I do, however, have the e-collar on my dog at all times. And I would be happy to show you a video of how excited they are in the morning to put the collars on because they know we are going to go something fun. (In this case it is just them going to work with me – but still fun for them). They are not cowering or stressed.

Will not use shock collars on my dog’s love them too much they are my babies who ever use it they are crazy!!!

Thanks for your post. I have never used these collars. Would I? The key words to me are absolute last resort in a life or death situation. I feel fortunate that so far, I haven’t come to this situation.

How many of you that would never use an e-collar would use an electric fence for a horse?

Thank you for writing this article. You mention that you try not to write about training techniques and gear that you don’t support, but i think it’s important to explain why these things are not OK, so please keep it up! Especially when aversive techniques are so widely used. Sometimes people just don’t know better, including me 10 years ago when I first got my dog. Now that I know about positive reinforcement training and the downfalls of aversive techniques, I’m so ashamed of how I trained my dog. But without knowing why something is wrong, it can be hard to convince people to change, especially when the alternative may take a lot more time and effort.

Good article. A lot of the folks who oppose shock collars are inexperienced. They have never had a dog that needed one. I say “needed” in the sense of keeping the dog safe. A prompt recall can save a dog’s life. They should be used sparingly and with instruction. Never for house manners!

I have the same experience as Sandi – I’ve been successfully using the collar on my rescue dog that has a very strong hunting instinct and prey drive. He’s a very happy and healthy dog who has great recall when he’s not in the thrill of the hunt. The collar acts as a reminder to pay attention to me – it breaks the spell – and he comes trotting back no worse for wear. It allows him freedom off leash (in safe places) to run and play so he’s a very fit and fulfilled guy. I’m having to use it less and less often because now he knows that if he doesn’t come after I call him twice that he’s going to get a reminder. He’s a scrappy little dog and isn’t bothered by it. So it just depends on the dog and its temperament and how you use the collar. I would never use it on my other dog who’s very sensitive (she also isn’t a hunter), or on my previous border collies who would have completely shut down emotionally. And I’m the nicest dog person you could ever meet, with happy dogs :))

My Aussie Doodle was a terror until he had in board training at the age of 10 months. I too never liked the thought of shock collars but when I saw the outcome it was amazing. At Vinny’s graduation from training they taught us how to use the collar (which also has a vibration feature) and had us test it on ourselves. We went over 20 on our palms (this device goes to 100) before we stopped and probably could have gone higher but we knew Vinny was trained on the level 8 and that is were we keep it. A few times went as high as a 12 only because he was excited and very distracted while chasing a squirrel. He seems to dislike the vibration feature more than the mild shock. We rarely use the device anymore and need only to have the control in our hand for him to behave and that is also a rarity. He is a happy but still mischievous ( in a fun way) but well behaved boy (1 1/2 yoa) now. I am a true believer as long as this device is used correctly and not to used to hurt the dog.

Thank you for your reasoned thoughts on this. As a trainer, I have indeed encountered your observations about dogs trained to perform behaviors with shock collars that really are equally well trained (in terms of getting the performance of the behavior) but force- and pain-free methods. Of course there have been dogs who are overtly stressed, but there are also dogs that exhibit more subtle signs, especially if they were trained skillfully. One of the biggest challenges I find is helping these dogs learn how to learn again, especially for complex behaviors. Typically shock teaches a bit by process of elimination, by punishing wrong choices in hopes of making the correct choice clear. Personally I find being very specific about WHAT exactly the correct choice is. communicating that effectively, and reinforcing it to the exclusion of alternatives is a faster option (and of course less risk of fall out). It can be difficult to get dogs trained on ecollars for simple behaviors to offer up or exhibit novel behaviors we try to train because they seem to hesitate that and stress that they risk being wrong, and being wrong hurts in their experience. Knowing the debilitating effects of chronic, low-grade stress in humans (not to mention high-grade!), I am convinced any perceived trade-offs in speed of acquisition or reliability are not worth the costs. As a breeder of gun dogs, I can also say my European husband notices significant costs in ecollar trained behaviors where they are not needed. An example is pointing dogs. Pointing is in large part an instinctual behavior pattern based in genetics. We can actually observe this behavior being seemingly disturbed when we ecollars are used to train steadiness in the face of flushing birds or gunfire. Dogs lose focus on the bird and a pointing stand to opt for warily eyeballing the trainer and in worst cases cowering (which seems to me to have contributed to the myth in the USA that pointing dogs shouldn’t be taught to sit!). While there may be a role for life safety issues for skillful ecollar use, it seems to me that concern and caution is well-warranted for the vast majority of training. With recent studies demonstrating that shock in particular can cause inheritance of debilitatingly maladaptive traits such as fear in a single generation (Dias and Ressler 2013), it seems to me increasingly clear shock has limited to no use or place in 99% of training from a risk-benefit or canine welfare analysis.

I’m old. When I trained my first dog in a community class, we all learned to pop our choke collars.
My third dog was fear aggressive- a cupcake with friends & family, a terror with strangers/strange dogs. I took him to dog school ( 6 classes at once on a big parking lot) every Saturday for 10 years. Sad to say, back then we were instructed to get pinch collars for our reactive dogs.
My dog was perfect at off leash work, until he saw a dog he didn’t know, even 100′ away. He would try to take off & attack.
My dog was also incredibly reactive if he saw another dog when inside the car. The teacher wanted to try a shock collar on him, in the car. I didn’t know better. She had the collar turned all the way up, and my dog didn’t even notice.
After this dog passed, I volunteered at SPCA for a few years. Jean Donaldson’s Academy for dog trainers was based there. I learned so much, & would never again use any kind of pain inflicting collar.

We did use one at our house due to an upsetting situation. We brought in a new puppy and our older, very sweet dog started attacking him. We had to separate the dogs and it looked like we might have to get rid of our puppy. We brought in a trainer who trains therapy dogs, and dogs for victims/ptsd. It was a very professional group that worked with my older dog. He did use an ecollar very gently on my older dog, who caught on very quickly. He then put it in our hands. When he went to attack our puppy, we used the ecollar. It took two times and it never happened again. Now, three years later, they are great pals and we can live peacefully together. They don’t like to be apart. I think that sometimes there are very extreme behavioral issues with dogs that it can help with. I have known owners to give their dogs away or put them down because of issues. For us, it offered us the ability to keep our puppy and for that i am grateful. i think in the wrong hands it is not good. We had a professional trainer, and used it a few times to correct a bad behavior that fortunately helped our family.

On most of my dogs, I have not used the e/shock collar. However, there is one dog that brought me to my knees–not listening, lunging at other dogs, not coming when called, etc. I tried every trick and every class available in our area, not to mention the fact that I have trained many dogs myself and competed in AKC Obedience trials over the years. This one dog, however, seemed to be truly untrainable, and so when he was about 18 months old, I finally resorted to attending two private sessions with a professional e-collar trainer. At the beginning of the first session, before the collar was on, the trainer watched in horror as my dog lurch and pull me to the ground. She told me that if we didn’t get him under control someone could be very seriously injured. After the first session we had what amounted to a “brand new” dog. The second session was for tweaking, and now he’s a pleasure to live with. Certainly, most dogs don’t need this method. However, when it comes to the people’s safely and the future of the dog, this type of training is a godsend!

Thank you for writing about this! I have known several people who have sent their dogs away to board and train programs, some of them using e-collars, and I have always had misgivings about these programs, particularly with the send away and electronic collar aspects of them. In my work training my own dogs, I’ve had as much or more to learn as my dogs. I think of training as teaching and learning for dogs and people, and relationship building along the way. If my dog has two weeks of training and I have 1/2 hour follow up to learn what happened, there’s a disconnect there.
Some questions:
1. Are e-collars and shock collars the same thing?
2. People have told me they have used the e-collar on their own arms and it felt painless. Is this “painless” experience what’s actually happening to their dog during board and train?
Thanks again.

I know a woman that owns a chocolate lab, mine is a cream. Both are pedigrees. However she uses a prong collar and a shock collar. I do not believe in using anything but a collar and some treats. Her dog just lets out a scream when she presses that button on the shock collar and I noticed the change in him no happy go lucky like he use to be before those two collars. She has been using these 2 collars for 3 yrs now. My lab is 18 months younger than her dog, she walks this dog each day for 8 or more miles with those collars. I have shown her that lab are smart they do not need a shock collar or prong together it makes me so angry why people cannot take the time and train their dog. She cannot believe my dog is well behaved.

My boy died in January. He was almost 10. Got him when he was only 10 weeks old and started him with puppy training and using e-collar training. He was great with the collar. Always excited when I would get his collar out. Never had to put the collar on a higher setting number than 10, out of the 220 settings that were on the unit. All the people in our training classes swear by these collars as I do. Best friend trained hers that way and we both get and got many praises on how our dogs behaved. By the way, they did not always have their e-collars on all the time after they were trained. If a person is trained properly with the collar, there is no reason to have a sad dog! Or even train a dog which everyone should do!

A lovely lab at our marina started humping my Akita/German Shepherd youngster. After watching the lab turn into a cringing mess as his owner increased the shock level to finally make the dog stop, I swore I’d never ever use a shock collar. Then I watched my lovely Shepkita kill a fawn. He’s 100+ pounds of muscle; I am no match in strength. I’m grateful we live where I can walk him off-leash in private field and forest. (He is excellent on-leash in urban environments.) My husband decided an e-collar might help us train him not to chase/kill deer. Chosen collar beeps, vibrates or shocks at selected strength. Husband tested the charge sensation settings on himself. One very light shock and “STOP” was all it took. With no further shocks, pup’s learned to STOP or WAIT on voice command. Beep is occasionally required if prey is in sight. He watches deer. Squirrels and rabbits are still fun to chase tho’ they cannot be caught: they have trees and brambles. Pup is a happy lovely friendly waaaaay too smart 3 yr old. Is the e-collar just our remote clicker?

While we agree with not using shock collars for obedience training, we have used perimeter containment collars with 3 of our former dogs with great success with no apparent behavioral issues. We have a very large yard which would be cost prohibitive to hard fence. We are about to upgrade our containment system to the Invisible Fence for use with our 2 new Labradoodles. These are big dogs which need a lot of exercise. We feel that it is more humane to use these collars rather than keep them on a short leash all their lives. The fact is, once our other dogs got use to the boundary, we turned off the shock anyway and the dogs never left the yard. With the new Invisible Fence system, we will have the option for a “tone only” correction as well.

This is one of the worst articles that I have ever read by the whole dog journal. It appears to have been written by someone who clearly does not understand the proper use of an ecollar. Ecollars are not used to intimidate or hurt a dog when used properly. Granted, the average person should not use one unless under the guidance of a good trainer. There are plenty of dogs out there that do great with theses collars when used properly. There are also dogs out there that should never use one. Good trainers know the difference. I’d like to see an article by someone who clearly knows the use of this tool. As for negative reinforcement, you do know that merely withholding a treat or food from a dog when training is also a form of negative reinforcement.

The only time any of my dogs were trained with a shock collar was for Rattlesnake avoidance. Living in Arizona, this is a very large concern, especially when I have had them in my dog yard, I researched trainers to see which one best fit my +R training philosophy. I saw no difference in my dogs after the training session. Although my one dog needs to go back for refresher training because his prey drive over shadows his fear of discomfort.

An aside note: Autistic children will often bang their head on the floor, even concrete and they do it with force. Detached retinas often occur. The only proven method of stopping this behaviour was shock. The ignorant do-gooders got wind of it and managed to get it outlawed. The operation was done by trained professionals. The last time I checked (35 years ago) they were making the children wear helmets . The professional were using B.F. Skinner’s positive & negative reinforcement and that worked! I am a 93 year old retired psychology professor.

I told my husband he could use one on our dog, if first I could use it on him. I think he was joking, but I wasn’t!

I’ve been training professionally for 22 years. I’m greatly saddened by the numerous “trainers” in my area using shock collars. From my observations, people want their puppies and adolescent dogs to act like well trained adult dogs. Many don’t want to spend the time and energy to train them so off they go to board/train shock collar people. I absolutely see the subtle signs of stress on the videos. I can’t even watch them.

No way, no how. Put the collar in the i-juit that would do that to a dog.

I would never use them for training, but I do use (rarely) on 1 high prey dog (in a 3 dog pack) when off leash hiking in the spring, due to the newborn fawns being very vulnerable. My dog has a great recall almost all of the time, and I carry high value treats when hiking and training. However, I know he might find the temptation of a fawn irresistible, and an attack on one would be lethal. The collar has tone and shock, and he responds well to the tone. I can’t recall the last time I used the shock, but it was likely at least 2 years ago.
My guys all have the rattlesnake vaccine, but with this current crew we haven’t yet seen a snake. However, decades ago one of my dogs was struck by a rattler, and required immediate veterinary care.

Never acceptable for any obedience training. I did use one to stop my very athletic rescued Doberman from jumping the fence many years ago. It was a hard decision but it was a safety issue. Other than something like that, they are unacceptable.
If I used one on my current dogs, both with varying degrees of anxiety, I would destroy them.
I recently found a young little pit mix running loose in the woods. She had one on. I was not pleased to see it but nothing I could do. However, when I had leashed her and was trying to decide what to do with her, she shrieked. I realized the owner must be near and had zapped her. So, I took it off and threw it into some bushes. Owner came, nice lady. I said nothing about the collar. She noticed it was “missing”. I had the opportunity to explain how they created behavior issues, etc. she listened, hopefully it helped and she did not buy another. I ended up picking it up and bringing it home to dispose of. Not nice maybe, but maybe it helped her understand how they can create more problems than you originally had.

It is never acceptable to inflict pain on your dog. It is never acceptable to let others inflict pain on your dog.
If you let a trainer do that, shame on you! The animal might learn something but will loose trust on you.
A good trainer can teach with pain. The method of teaching with pain is antiquated and frankly does more harm than good!!!!

Hi, I was not going to respond to this article only because of those who are not hunting enthusiasts.
The people here that do not understand the proper use of an E-collar almost make it a political correctness attitude.
Gun dogs are and essential part of our society and need a little extra vibe to help them sometimes.
I agree with Sandy and Lauri, safety and training gun dogs has to be precise. I never had to use it for basic commands and once my dogs had the hunt down, I didn’t need the vibe any longer, only for tracking purposes.
Lets face it there are coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and such of witch you need to know where your buddy is at all times.
So for all you haters out there that prefer not to use the E for basic commands, bravo. I wish you all the park walking in the world.
Oh, let me not forget about the rattle snakes. My dogs were trained in live rattlesnake avoidance and if you care to do it without an E, more power to you, but don’t criticize those of us that choose to go that route, because I guarantee, you would not like the photos of dogs that have been bitten my rattlers.
So, if you don’t know how to properly use an E, I recommend not using it, but don’t judge the rest of use that go beyond the outdoor norm.
I’m not even going to get into hunting feral pigs with dogs.
It’s so nice to be able to voice an opinion without haters chasing you down.

Hi, I was not going to respond to this article only because of those who are not hunting enthusiasts.
The people here that do not understand the proper use of an E-collar, almost make it a political correctness attitude.
Gun dogs are a essential part of our society and need a little extra vibe to help them sometimes.
I agree with Sandy and Lauri, safety and training gun dogs has to be precise. I never had to use it for basic commands and once my dogs had the hunt down, I didn’t need the vibe any longer, only for tracking purposes.
Lets face it there are coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and such, of witch you need to know where your buddy is at all times.
So for all you haters out there who prefer not to use the E for basic commands, bravo. I wish you all the park walking in the world.
Oh, let me not forget about the rattle snakes. My dogs were trained in live rattlesnake avoidance and if you care to do it without an E, more power to you, but don’t criticize those of us that choose to go that route, because I guarantee, you would not like the photos of dogs that have been bitten my rattlers.
So, if you don’t know how to properly use an E, I recommend not using it, but don’t judge the rest of use that go beyond the outdoor norm.
I’m not even going to get into hunting feral pigs with dogs.
It’s so nice to be able to voice an opinion without haters chasing you down.

We have been trainers for 35+ years. We do not use harsh devices in our training nor are we treat based trainers. We believe in relationship training using a wide (1-2″ ) collar which is the gentlest you can use and a regular flat lead. We don’t believe in relying on anything but you – your touch, tones, love, emotions, body language etc. You might guess we aren’t big fans of choking, pinching, hanging or shocking animals to gain compliance. I have been brought to tears witnessing what happens to dog who received shocks. One Golden refused to leave the 2nd floor of the house for a week because the ‘invisible fence’ person didn’t know what they were doing. One pup we trained after the shock collar trainer had the dog would have projectile diarrhea upon seeing the collar head his way. It’s just insane. I can’t help but get angry at the people who promote such a terrible way to train as harmless. If you know anything about training a dog then why do you need anything but you and the dog? Even trainers who go overboard with treats frustrate me but for a whole other reason. I have seen dogs removed from their homes because the treat training basically got out of control and now the dog was lunging at their people’s hand aggressively for more food. Not so good for the elderly couple and their very assertive Malamute. Or the very nice lady whose 4 month old puppy is growling at her whenever he doesn’t want to do something and now she is afraid of him. All because her prior trainer just kept tossing food in his direction as a deterrent, but did nothing to teach him manners. Now the pup thinks ‘growl and I get a treat’. Anything that swings the pendulum too far in any direction isn’t balanced. Of course now even that word has been ruined by trainers who think being harsh is just fine so long as you give them lots of treats too. Where’s the skill? Where’s the understanding of dogs? Where is the middle ground? How about teaching people to read their dogs, to understand their dogonality, to know what an eye blink means, a heavy sigh, an ear flick…it all has meaning. People need to learn to speak dog and practice it everyday. That creates a relationship built on love, trust and respect. You don’t build trust with pain or fear, and it can be tough to foster respect without rule and boundaries. Rarely do we have to worry about the love part – thats easy.

I would just like to mention that most collars have a vibrate and tone function. You do Not have to use the “Shock” function. I use the tone function. I can’t tell you how many times I have to explain this to other owner/handlers.

It is not uncommon foe Electronic Collars, or E-Collars, to be referred to as ‘Shock’ collars, however this is not an accurate description of the way these products function. The term “shock collar biases the public and is continually propagandized by people like yourself. E-Collars use electronic stimulation (ES) and NOT electric shock. Electric shock occurs when a living being is grounded and a live electrical current is applied to them. The ES delivered by modern E-Collars is Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation (TENS). TENS has no injurious effects and is often used to manage chronic pain in humans. If used correctly only low level settings are used on dogs, however regardless of the setting, ES does not hurt the dog in any way. It feels more like an itch. E-Collars were first developed in the 1970’s and at that time they did deliver electric shock. However, this is not a term which is appropriate to associate with modern E-Collars which have evolved as training techniques have as well.

E-Collars can do much more than just provide ES. The anti E-Collar propaganda that you spread is inaccurate and of your opinion only (e.g. Not based on anything that is real).

In terms of the other things that E-Collars do, they:
* allow you to speak to your dog anywhere up to miles away
* allow you to use a tone or a vibration to get the dog’s attention instead of ES
* allow you to track the geographic location of the dog up to dozens of miles away and show that to you on a unit that looks like an iPhone that the owner carries
* allow you to turn lights on the collar on remotely to make the dog more visible
* provide the ability to draw an enclosure around any geographic area and have it work like a hidden fence

At their core, E-Collars are communications devices. Most commonly they are used at low levels to provide information to the dog. It helps them to understand expectation, where we need them to be, and what we want them to avoid doing – all at a distance.

The E-Collar provides an opportunity to teach a dog reliable off leash behavior. For dogs who are already reliable off leash, they provide a safety net for that unusual situation which always arises. A well trained dog equipped with a tool that allows us to communicate with them at a distance has a lot of value both for us and our dogs.

I got a shock collar to use on my Sheltie, a very gentle soul. I’ll never forget the look in his eyes the first time I shocked him. He was confused and puzzled and hurt.

I took it off of him immediately and tried it on myself. It was SO painful. It was awful! I never used it again. I would never subject any of my dogs to it ever again. I consider it cruel.

I know there’s supposedly positive things about them, but animals don’t belong to us. I think these type of punishing tools reflect the cavalier attitude of humans towards other species on the planet. We don’t ‘own’ them.

If you train your dog right with the e collar it works, and no reason to go up on numbers. I used it at 15 on me and finally felt on my hand, and it was a little tingle . And training numbers on the dogs is very low. I am sure if it hurt my dog , he would of yelped instead of looking around like what was that ? I would never use it for negative reinforcement.

Your argument has so many holes I’m not sure where to begin. First you start each argument with an assumption. Second, you speak from a condescending presumption that your better. I noticed that you deal with horses as well. It has been proven that horses are more receptive, intelligent, and empathetic than dogs are. From this point I question your use of electric fences. They emit a higher charge than an e-collar. Are these horses scarred for life? Are you a bed horse owner for putting them in a field with an electric fence? Third, you go to great lengths to point out how horrible e-collar training of a dog is, but you offer absolutely no alternative. Lip service of “positive” training does not answer a single question that you yourself raised. How do you stop an unwanted behavior? I can get a dog to sit with treats. I can get a dog to lay down, roll over, and a lot more, but enlightened me on how to stop the dog from bolting through the door. How to keep it from jumping on someone, or from chewing my shoes? Lastly, every creature learns from pain avoidance. Humans are no exception. Total positive training results in participation trophy type kids. Total negative bares scared withdrawn kids. Same holds for other animals that are not self aware like dogs. The trick, as all developmental psychologists will attest is a well prescribed blend of the two. You say that you’re just journaling to figure all of this out. I applaud you for an actual request to learn. My only concern was the tenor of your writing seemed as if you’ve already had your mind made up. I’d suggest sitting down with said trainer and air your concerns and questions and let her explain her thoughts.

I got an electric dog collar and I tried it on myself and that was all I ever did with it .It went in the bin.
I would not put it on my dog because it hurt that much.
Not a way to train a dog

A very biased report. The author forgot to mention the there are several levels of the electric shock normally up to 7 or 8 levels. She also totally did not mention that a good training collar has 2 more options also with many different levels: the vibrate mode and the acoustic mode to get the dogs attention. Bad biased reporting.

Put a shock collar on yourself, wife (husband) and kids and see how everyone likes it. If you use one, then YOU don’t know how to train. Remember: mankind is king of beasts, his brutality exceeds theirs.

Now here’s a thought, and a very pretty thought.
When I’ve run classes for pet dog owners, I find it very very difficult to get through to some of the owners. You can patiently show them again “how to do it’ but there are always some who just don’t seem to get it.
Would you then get these people to wear a device so that you can give them a non-lethal electric shock whenever you see them making a mistake?
Would it turn them into better trainers for their dogs? Do you think it would make these people happier?
Can you think of a better way to ‘train these stubborn people?

I can only speak to my experience with my rescued Irish Terrier boy. ITs are generally willful and loving, aggressive toward other dogs and small mammals. I’ve had five, two rescues. My boy had been “trained” with a shock collar and had lived in several homes before mine because of his willfulness, which is a breed trait. It took years for me to be able to touch his head and neck, and the click of his vest harness can still drive him into a spinning frenzy.

I see an ecollar as a long leash more than any thing. It is not to be used to train but reinforce and already learned behavior. I teach my dogs to come to and go away from me and stand still all on leash and then overlay a collar stim that most people can’t feel. This allows me to have my dog be more freedom off leash with knowing I have control. Yes an e collar in the wrong hands is a horrible thing, but I have been training dogs for over 30 years and in the past 10 with all of this postive training, I have seen more fear biters and malajusted dogs because the dogs have no leader and they themselves are not strong enough to lead. Yes I do positive reinforcement to teach my dogs but there has to be consquences when a dog does not respond to commands because it could mean their life in a bad situation. I think it is cruel for people to get a sporting dog or a working dog and keep it in house or in a small yard on a leash all of the time, that is not what dogs were made to do. They were created to work for and with us. If you want a dog to stay on a 6 ft leash it whole life get a dog suited for that like a shih-tzu or a frenchie but don’t get a Weimaraner or a German Shepherd they just won’t be happy living that life. Don’t go and get a dog because you like the looks and then find out you don’t have enough energy yourself to train and exercise it. People are the ones who are letting dogs down by not be able to give them what they need and not wanting to take the time to learn what they need, People want what they want when they want it and if it doesn’t behave perfectly to fit in their lives they look for an easy fix and an e collar is not an easy fix if used correctly but it is a consistant means of communication with your dog that most people can not do with food, especially if your dog is off leash.
Used incorrectly any training devise is a bad thing. I have seen people with dog aggressive dogs feed their dog everytime the dog looks at another dog. With bad timing this is just teach that dog to fixate on other dogs not leave them. I think one of the most dagerous things is someone using an e collar on aggressive or maladjusted dog that should only be done but highly trained dog trainers. And even most people that think they are trained are truly not that train to deal with such a dog.

Shock Collars will be fine just as soon as trainers/owners who use them wear them. How could anyone tolerate this for their baby!

More Research is needed to understand what your talking about. A proper “SHOCK” Collar should not be stronger then a good TENS Unit.
With Respect. Unless you UNDERSTAND The Proper application for E-Collars or Shock Collars You should not be commenting on this issue.
I am a successful 20+ year trainer for Electronic Dog Fences.. I am also a Trained Obedience Trainer
If you want to learn more about this Let Me know I would like to have a respectful conversation.
I will not discuss this option with someone with a closed angry attitude so don’t waste your time responding

I had a very bad experience with a shock collar and an invisible fence. We had decided to put in an invisible fence for Everest, our Bernese Mountain dog. All my neighbors had them on their properties for their dogs and claimed it worked well. Most had golden retrievers.
Anyway, we along with a professional trainer trained Everest with a shock collar and the invisible fence. The only good thing I can say is that he stayed within our property lines. Heres the (very) bad part: Everest developed severe territorial aggression – meaning that if you walked by on our sidewalk (out of bounds of the invisible fence) he’d just sit and watch you. The moment you stepped one inch onto our property, you were toast. He attacked number of people. It was a miracle we weren’t sued. If we had visitors, we had to use a powerful tranquilizer on him along with keeping him physically away from anyone visiting. We tried years to undo the damage to him with countless visits with canine behavioral therapists. After two years of this (and countless sleepless nights wondering when – not if – a lawsuit would come our way along with the possibility of euthanasia) we re-homed him with my father-in-law who had just retired (and whom Everest absolutely adored). It was a match made in heaven and an answer to our prayers. My father-in-law got a faithful companion who never left his side and Everest lived his life unencumbered by the constraints (translation: horror) of our electric fence. (They lived a few miles from us and we saw him frequently). Here’s the interesting part: Everest never bit again because he had no such association with a shock on the perimeter on my father-in-law’s property. He became a wonderful, sweet-tempered pet.

Since Everest, I’ve had numerous other dogs including a Newfoundland. I would never, ever use anything like a shock collar again for any reason. Whatever it did to Everest’s mind, I would not inflict that type of emotional pain again on another dog.

The “shock collar” brand pictured to my knowledge is not a real shock. It is similar to the little wires my chiropractor
has used on me and all it does is make the muscle twitch. It is very good at getting your dogs attention and does not
work on all dogs due to it’s gentleness. I had one for one of my dogs and i had a professional trainer train him on it
and show me how to use it properly. Proper use is very important. My trainer is against using true shock collars. That is why she recommended the brand name pictured in this article.
Perhaps they do make real shock collars. I have not used one in years but the one i had was not a true shock collar but for muscle stimulation. If you have any concerns try it on yourself. That will answer your question.

there is absolutely a need and appropriate use for e-collars. But that is not to train/sharpen obedience exercises. I know many top trainers use them for such a purpose but personally I’d rather have a slightly sloppy performance and a happy dog.
Case for e-collars: aggressive or out-of-control dogs. Have a friend who currently has an iffy shepherd. This person should NOT have a large breed of any kind but, well, those puppies in the stall in her friend’s barn were just SO cute! This friend is of the ‘kill ’em with kindness’ mentality – ‘he really doesn’t mean it’, ‘he’s really sweet with my kids and folks who come to the house (doubt that)’. Sorry, lots of damage can be done by ‘he really doesn’t mean it so maybe if I feed him a cookie he won’t throw his 100+ pounds at me with a bite’. Keep in mind that he was barely over 6 months old at the time. At our first meeting this dog was on lead with the owner and lunged for my husband, grabbing his jacket (fortunately it was a heavy one and the bite did no damage). The owner was ‘surprised’ that he would react that way, giggled a little and remarked that the dog is ‘so protective of me’. An e-collar would go far toward improving his attitude in this situation as he would teach himself which behaviors are unacceptable. The owner would use it remotely so when the dog begins to launch into an off behavior – charging the fence – simply tap the collar which breaks his train of thought and also lets him know that behavior is unacceptable. The beauty is that he’s taught himself through repeated ‘hits’ when off behaviors occur what is unacceptable and those corrections are not associated with the owner or any person. I don’t know honestly how ‘off’ this dog is mentally but suspect much of the aberrant behavior is actually caused/supported by the owner. They had another from this same farm/puppy producer, but that one was sweet just really neurotic and eventually lost at 2 to uncontrollable seizures. Eventually I’d likely back off of the shock to just vibration (hey, a shock’s coming if you don’t stop what you’re doing) and once that was ingrained, back off again to just the tone. Unless the dog is incredibly stupid he should be well on the way to offering the correct response and gradually fading the behavior entirely. If he’s truly that stupid he is unpredictable and unsafe to be around so should be humanely put down.

the down side is that anyone with the money can buy an e-collar and use it incorrectly. Have also witnessed horrid cases of misuse. Neighbor’s dog came over to my house (he is always welcome here) and they had an e-collar on him. I walked him down the road toward home and the owner began hitting the collar to ‘teach him not to run off’. No, you’re teaching him not to come home! They just didn’t get it.

as for invisible fences, I’ve hit and killed two dogs at night who were wearing invisible fence collars and had simply run thru the fence chasing something or other. It was dark and I never saw them til I felt the thud. INVISIBLE FENCES DON’T WORK, but the salespeople can do one heck of a selling job! the down side of course is that once your dog runs thru the fence he can’t come back home. Nor can he get away from a stray who happens into his yard for an attack. too many negatives to even consider using one. I can’t believe folks are gullible enough to believe they work.

I recently rescued a Weimaraner that was shocked collar trained. He was given up because he pottied in the house. However, they never had him neutered or had ever taken him to a vet. The rescue had him neutered and I have not had any problems with him at all, adopted him in Feb of 2020. I am thankful to have him away from the formers as this poor dog was afraid to even be a dog! He was afraid to relieve himself, even outside and he was afraid to bark! I believe they abused the collar by setting at a higher level than should have been. When he started barking after I had him a month or so, he would gag and do some really strang things with his mouth and tongue. He is getting better and only swallows oddly when he barks now.

For people that don’t under the tool. E collar, you need to educate yourself. I bet you think a hammer is destructive tool . Uninformed ignorant comments.

I’ve trained my dog to react to the beep on his ecollar. He was only shocked once – on a very low setting – (I’ve even shocked myself on the same level to make sure it was effective and tolerable) and it worked. I literally haven’t had to shock him again. He responds to the beep which is what we need when he wanders on our trail hikes. Shock/ecollars need educated owners behind the button.

We thought that it’s just a gentle stimulation like the trainer told us. The trainer demonstrated it on our hands in test mode and it just vibrates so we thought it was fine. We let them train our dog for 1 hr at 12-13 setting. we came home happy with the e collar and thought let’s see how it feels if We set it at 5 which is pretty low. It felt like a sting. A sharp sting at just 5 setting and we saw trainer use up to 12 with our dog. We couldn’t believe we let them hurt our dog based on a lie thatIt doesn’t hurt and just vibrates. We returned it. The dog can’t tell you it hurts. Put it on your neck and press the button and you will know how much it hurts. No it doesn’t build relationship. It will make dog confused as to why their fav person in the world want to hurt them.

I work for a pet store chain that sells these…my concern is that pet owners buy and use these tools without any understanding of how to train with them. They want something that will quickly fix a problem behavior – I’ve been told countless times “I don’t have time to train my dog, I need x to stop right now.” They use them to punish their dog, period.

While I can understand the argument to use an e-collar in the hands of a professional trainer to prevent life-or-death behavior, I would love to see them banned from public sales. They are too powerful to be used without education about classical and operant conditioning. They are tools of very last resort for exceptional cases and only after R+ training and environment management have not changed the behavior.

For scientific evidence against using these devices read: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2020.00508/full

Yes, I did have a trainer did a demo on my dog using an electric shock collars. I see it follow very well, however, in return my dog and I did not have the same attachment and emotional bonding . I also bought an electric collar and trained my dog for a week. What I can say about using an electric collar on my dog, it does give it a faster response on training and to expected the dog to respond to the way you wanted. However, I do fell, it is like watching your child getting bully and beating up for so long, until the child break down and follow what the bully wants. I can see the scared in my dog eyes and through his response. By using the electric collar technique, it doesn’t help dog owner like me to understand my dog or my dog to understand me, there is no friendship and trust bonding. But, in facts, what I have experienced, my dog discipline become scar like routines for my dog, he remembered what he must perform correctly, so he wouldn’t be hurt by me using the electric collar. The pain and scared build up in his memories. This type of technique, really takes away how dog lover like me can grow and understanding my dog . My dog is doing really well without using the electric collar now. It takes a little more time but it learns to bond, love and understanding me, as much as I’ve learned to loved and understanding my dog.

I keep seeing the word “pain” in almost every comment against e-collars. I guarantee absolutely none of these people have ever used one on themselves. They range from 1-100. I’ve used it on my hand up to 50 before feeling any actual pain besides just a tingling. Anything below 20 is just a slight tingle. It doesn’t cause pain unless turned up very high(which should never have to be used unless an emergency) It’s a way of physically communicating with dogs from a distance. I use mine on 8-10 with my dogs. A lot of people misuse these collars and it gives them a bad wrap. They should not be used for fear only a way of communicating with your dog I just used them for recall purposes only and now rarely even use them only when I really have to. When my dog bolted after a deer it took almost 70 for him to even feel it. Sometimes sound commands just don’t work when a dog is distracted by something. It’s just another way of communicating with them that is better than verbal commands at a distance.

I do not want to be argumentative. Just some food for thought. Most people think it is ok to discipline their children with a spanking or some other type of uncomfortable thing like time out in a chair in the corner. Why is discipline for a dog wrong if done correctly? I don’t think that yo u should only use negative reinforcement, but positive and negative together. Please comment I don’t understand..

Rattlesnake aversion training is done with a shock collar…we had dogs that went through this and yes they alerted to rattlers but stayed far away. Until our border collie: when he went into the training he loved all the people there, wagging his tail happily. When he was through with the training he was a different dog —- he’d been betrayed by all those nice people..they hurt him! He was never the same dog and his attitude towards most men was always one of suspicion . I will never take a dog to that type of training again.

I work at a veterinary clinic and we occasionally have a dog come in wearing an electronic collar. It’s horrible to see a dog get beeped/shocked (whatever) for doing something that the owner perceives as wrong. The dog is simply nervous or frightened. We always ask the owner to remove the collar and they always seem annoyed. Like we couldn’t possibly handle their dog w/o it. LOL

Hi there I don’t like to put electric collar to my dog I fill like it’s to much for a animal thank you for sharing…

I so appreciate your response. It’s not judgmental or attacking and allows for a huge range of situations. The people on this thread, or any thread, who throw out judgment when another person expresses an opinion they don’t like is not discussion or a conversation. there are few situations in life that have one very clear answer. Aware of someone will judge me, I tried the traditional training methods around positive reinforcement. It worked in the very beginning and even though I was committed, it didn’t stick in real life situations. Our pup started escaping from our deer fence even after several reinforcements and could have been shot by a farmer, jumped on neighbor kids or eaten neighbors’ chickens. Based on several referrals, I paid a lot of money for a training program based on e-collar technology. It’s not perfect but it has made a significant positive impact.

Nothing beats taking the time opposed to quick fixes to get your dog to understand reasonable behavior. I grew up with a dog. We took the time to make sure her behavior was not unreasonable and we always had her on a lease when we went for walks. Did we always get it right, no, but by keeping her on a lease it meant that the odd time she wanted to dash off we were able to control that situation. I now live by the beach and have seen numerous dog owners used E-collars. They don’t have them on a lease, they let them run wild, which dogs thoroughly enjoying doing in open spaces. But get to far away or they don’t respond to a command and they’re zapped. It’s obviously uncomfortable for dog. It’s not “training” the dog, it’s control by fear. My personal opinion is take the time to make the dog understand reasonable behavior, keep it on a lease outdoors if there are other people or dogs around. “Training” your dog to have good behavior is a good approach, but please don’t turn him or her into a circus dog that will perform to commands.

Yeah is very important to tech all the basics to the dog….

Hi folks
I have a Siberian Husky – 1.5 years old and about 80 lbs. I live out in the country and most of my neighbors are at least half a mile away; the exception is my brothers house which is only a couple of hundred yards away. Unfortunately, my dog has a habit of going over to my brother’s house an bringing back just about anything that isn’t tied down. This is a considerable frustration to the folks at my brother’s house. So, I think that I am looking for an e-collar that would allow the dog to ramble around but send him a significant message when he starts getting in the vicinity of my brother’s house. Your thoughts and suggestions are most welcome.
Eric

Why are you using a photo from a company that doesn’t make electric shocking training collars? Dogtras stim and vibrate, they do not have electric shocks on their training collars. You’re bashing a company that doesn’t fit your narrative.

I go running with my 9 month old puppy on the beach, where in the excitement of seeing birds and given lots of noise, he sometimes can’t hear me. We sometime go off leash and sometimes on the long lead. When we do recall, I call for him. But if he can’t or doesn’t want to hear me, the long lead serves as the mechanism for him to stop running away, uncontrollably. I’m not pulling on the leash, but like all leash and harnesses, there’s slight pressure on his chest, which tells him to stop. I’ve been debating whether to use a friend’s “vibration only” collar to supplement this. I’m not at all interested in a shock collar. But, I’m not clear why a tone or vibration only (again, no shock) is any different than calling out to him, in order to redirect his attention. I don’t believe any of us would be averse to a tap on the shoulder to call for attention. Am I correct that a vibration is the same as a tap on the shoulder? I tried the collar and it really is just a vibration.

Max was great as a puppy and learned quickly.- all positive force free. He’s now 5. He guarded things but I taught him to drop and trade. At 16 months he had to spend the night at the ER vet and came home changed. He was attacked, while he was on leash by a dog who cornered him. It changed him drastically. He gradually became more leash reactive, and anxious. He is good with people, and loves my grandkids and anyone who comes over, but dog reactive while on leash. He can play with other dogs off leash if I’m not around for him to guard. He started guarding me and developed triggers – such as anyone coming up behind me, or being startled in any way. He would snarl at a person then. I’ve worked with him for 4 years with several different trainers with positive methods. He’s much better but not predictable. I’m 71 and have a balance issue from a concussion several years ago. I’m at the point of deciding if I need to. Re home if that is even possible. I’ve worked so hard with him.
I heard about a trainer who is a balanced trainer. I haven’t met her but several friends had great success with her a board and train. He is well trained with basic obedience, tricks, and we practice almost daily. What I want is to be able to walk him and not fear being pulled down and injured. She said she takes a long time to build a relationship with the dog and trained with rewards, and praise. She may use an Ecollar toward the end. She said it is a vibrating collar not a shock collar. Would this be something that might help me keep my dog. I adore him and 98% of the time he’s wonderful, but I need to be able to walk him and not worry about falling or someone getting hurt. I need opinions please. I have had many dogs and always used positive training, but I’m so distraught about him. Thank you for taking the time to answer me.

Wow. I would think that our current political and pandemic environment would teach us all to look carefully at our own assumptions. I’ve only been researching this topic for a few days which has included going to a facility that uses the advanced versions of these devices and having them try it on me. For me, the “tap on the shoulder” comparison that some people mention seems much more accurate that anything remotely like “shock, pain, and negative punishment” that many others associate the devices with. It easy to overlook new technology, and to associate stimulation with pain. It’s more difficult to have an open mind and I find it fascinating how people spout off on things they have not carefully researched–the author included. I am not taking a stand either way just yet, and just trying to gather information. Comments based on assumptions, not facts, are detrimental and distracting to those of us trying to understand how these tools can be used. I’m grateful to those who provided logic and research-based replies in this string.

My parents have a ‘Muscle Stimulant’ collar on my one-year-old puppy and the way they explain it to me is stupid.
Them: It’s not a shock collar, it doesn’t hurt him, it just stimulates his muscles.
Me: What does it stimulate his muscles with?
Them: Well, electricity.
Me: So it’s shocking him and forcing his muscles to contract.
Them: No! It’s stimulating his muscles.
Me: Okay, fine, but why do you say it doesn’t hurt him? He cries/screams half the time when you shock him.
Them: No, he’s just crying. It doesn’t hurt him.
Me: Whatever you have it on, turn it down by half and shock yourself and see how it feels.
Them: Sure!
Then they turn it down by half and touch it and immediately pull their hand away and are like “That was fine! It doesn’t hurt” even though it clearly hurt them. Besides, it would have been even worse if it was on their neck and they still refuse to believe it? Whenever it’s on, the puppy lunges at the remote, nips and bites everyone, jumps, barks, runs away, everything. But as soon as it’s off he’s the perfect little puppy happy to nap on top of me for an hour. How do they not recognize that?

I tried using a shock collar with one of my two dogs to stop her barking; however, had to remove it when my other dog noticed that she experienced a shock he or she barked. So, he would bark and then look at her and seemed to enjoy seeing the result. Not cool.

I whole heatedly agree that an e collar should not be used to teach behaviors. Teaching a behavior should be entirely positive for the dog. However, what I think people miss the mark on is that there’s nothing wrong with using tools to aid training when needed. Treats and clickers allow positive reinforcement to be concise and clear, similarly an e collar can be used to make a correction clear and concise, especially in situations where the dog is in a dangerous situation. When used as negative reinforcement it should not be aversive or cause pain, which is how it should be introduced. Negative reinforcement should be removing an annoyance, dog whistles work the same way except with tone. If someone is constantly applying the stimulus and the dog is clearly showing signs of pain, fear, stress, then that is abusive. Also, it should be paired with cues that the dog has already learned, because the tools do not train a dog it’s the owner who trains a dog.

As a side note, as an owner of a reactive dog who has benefited immensly from being open to tools, I’m really tired of trainers being so judgy of each other and of owners who use a different method. I understand wanting to call out abuse, but if a dog appears to be happy, having fun, and not changing personality with the training it’s probably not abusive. Not when there are trainers who will literally hit dogs or shock them into submission, because they think you have to dominate your dog. Over analysing Instagram photos and videos doesn’t help anyone, especially when you don’t know those dogs personally or haven’t worked with them. Dogs can have different stress indicators. For example my dog puts his ears back when he’s relaxed and it can almost look like pinning his ears at times. He’s always been like that even when I did the purely positive training, but now that I walk him in a collar with an e collar also around his neck, I can tell I get judged on walks. Even though he would have looked the same in a harness. I definitely got judgy looks from people when I was using the prong collar for training, which is no longer needed for my dog, even though he’d be calmly walking beside me.

Sounds like abortion argument.

I find this discussion and your thoughts very insightful and i really appreciate a candid and honest opinion. So thank you. I have 2 dogs. My dog Ryder is 2 1/2. He is a rescue and is incredibly sweet, loyal and although incredibly high energy and very prey driven, manages to trust me despite a less than ideal background. Although I don’t know his breed with certainty, I usually think of him as a Lab/Pitbull. Here’s the point, I paid a lot of money to have him trained at a very skilled and highly successful trainer. All treat, positive reinforcement and absolutely lovely to work with. I was also delighted with the results. Yet, Ryder’s ongoing excited jumping around small children (even after showing control in many challenging situations), led me to be concerned. I used a collar with the vibrate and beep settings only and had good results. And I, in 2 instances used the shock setting. Is this included in the idea of abuse? Those 2 scenarios were not reacted by Ryder with pain. He didn’t yelp, cry or bark. I had the setting very low and tested it on myself first. This is an honest question. Is there any appropriate use for a shock collar? I feel like i am experienced as a dog owner, but have seen so much conflicting ideas (and of course, advertising), but don’t know if it’s a preference or rather something that really could cause mental harm. I understand the difference between the fear based training methods, and positive reinforcement…. I just am honestly wondering. I hope I won’t be judged too harshly for using the shock setting. Thanks.

This isn’t a shock collar. This is an e-collar. It doesn’t provide direct voltage like previous collars a decade ago. Secondly, e-collars are great to use as a tool for training and cover all four quadrants of learning. Thirdly, e-collars need to be weened just like any training tool. Lastly, if you’re not a balance trainer, you’re not doing it right.

Life is full of compromise. I doubt many enjoy applying the stim to their dog, but there are cases where it is the far lesser of two evils.

Take a case where a dog pulls on the leash so hard he can only be walked by one member of the family and even that person is stressed and unhappy doing it. E collar training, provided under expert guidance fixes the problem ina single session. A follow up session enhances recall significantly, and shortly after every member of the family can walk him and want to. 10 years later, that dog is walked multiple times daily rarely on a leash.

Was that dogs life worse for the collar? That family?

What about the reactive dog that attacks a small child? Would it have been bad for an e collar to be used to curb that dogs behaviour before it escalated and harmed them? That dog would likely be destroyed and the child’s life affected forever. Still certain e collars are evil? Maybe they have been used in evil ways, but maybe, just maybe, there are also specific use cases where they can be good.

As Emily commented above, there is so much misinformarion and judgement out there, it’s more likely to get bad advice than ever before.

I unfortunately lost out on a hefty “consultation” fee for someone touting to be a “trainer” and suggesting I start my 5 month old puppy out on an e-collar. My puppy knows his basics already but I was having trouble with resource guarding over high value chew toys. A reputable dog trainer and behavior specialist would NEVER recommend a negative reinforcement technique to handle aggression or body handling issues ESPECIALLY in a young puppy. RUN FROM THOSE SO CALLED TRAINERS.

I love this awesome place and the great idea that I got here in detail. thanks a lot for this best idea

I have had two experiences: I tried an electronic fence. 2 of my dogs, no problem. The third dog after the training never went more than 2-3 feet off the back patio because he was afraid. Even when he stopped wearing the collar and the fence was turned off. BTW, he was only shocked once during training and never after. It made me so sad. Luckily, I moved about a year later and he happily bounded around the new yard.

My second experience was with a trainer. 20 years after the first experience and now with different dogs. When I got to the first appt and saw the demo with his dog and saw the dog was wearing a shock collar, I thanked him for his time and said it wasn’t for me or my dogs. He was very polite and said he respected that I knew upfront what I wanted and we parted ways. I hired a positive reinforcement trainer who was able to help me train the dogs on the basics and I’m glad I did.

I am a professional positive trainer. I have had many dogs come to me to be fixed, due to what the “prior professional trainer” did with a shock collar, prong collar of just hanging the dog by the leash. It really bothers me to see so much abuse. A lot of it is done to dogs under 6 months old! It is harder to fix the broken behavior that pain has caused, than to train it right. Yes, it takes time and patience to be a good positive trainer. We do have some quick methods and most are using high value rewards, body language understanding and good signals from the trainer. Most importantly is training the owner of the dog.

When will people stop attempting to be an authority on subjects that they demonstrate no in depth knowledge of? ‘Shock collar’ was never the formal term for electronic collars & is used to illicit emotion.
Ecollars are much much more than punishment.
There is a body of literature showing efficacy without fallout (that is completely omitted from position statements).
And trainers experienced in these tools are producing confident dogs with thrilled owners.
This article is discussing misuse & compulsive use.
Not understanding how a tool is used correctly is not an argument against it.

You clearly need to watch an E-collar being used and have someone explain to you what is happening. I see an article full of assumptions and devoid of actual knowledge.

People love a quick-fix, even though in the long term it makes things worse. Maybe, just maybe, if I lived in a country where prong and ecollars were legal, I’d be more accepting if they were genuinely used as a training tool. ie used to teach and proof a behaviour then ditched but they aren’t, the poor dogs have them used for life in the majority of cases. As for the “I tried it and it didn’t hurt” argument you knew what it was and when it was coming, dogs don’t. Say I wired up your bed and zapped you randomly, how long do you think it would take before you had a problem sleeping? What is the betting you had nightmares because of high levels of cortisol?

In countries where such aversives are banned people train service dogs, compete in IGP and bite work, work gun dogs etc. And countries with high animal welfare laws also have fewer dogs homeless and in shelters without huge numbers being euthanised.

I used one. my dog was not food driven for training at all, not even in class. no treats, no franks, no chicken, no burger, no cheese, nor clicker driven. nor toy driven. Nothing would make him stop trying to run into the street when on walks, under cars, etc, when leashed, which is much more hazardous. I used the tool at the absolute lowest level, much lower than the TENS machine I’ve used on myself for years. Just as if i was tapping the back of his neck. He never feared it, actually couldn’t care less about wearing it. I would never have used it at a higher level and I would always verbally call him to stop before using the tool. It took about a week of using voice commands and the collar, to only respond to voice. He was a stray who had been running the streets when I adopted him.

Ok! To the trainers who do not support e-collars please give me your advice. I have a 7 month old Brittany. Since 6 weeks I have noticed aggressive behaviors. He full on attacks us , frequently. Draws blood, growls, lunges and jumps and bites without stopping. Not nipping. Not for attention. Beserk. He also snaps whenever he wants to- form attention or reaching for collar, or playing with a toy (these bites are of a different quality and more bad manners). I have worked with three different trainers constantly since 6 weeks… not one has given me any real tools for this other than resting him a lot in crate and watching for overstimulation… which does help, until it doesn’t. Every time i search for trainers who specialize in aggression every single one used e-collar and says it’s the most humane. They also board to train. This is at least 6-10 of the trainers I’ve found in multiple states that say specialize in aggression. I have avoid this, first because it first appalled me and I wouldn’t think of it, then because he seems to go harder with any adverse stimulation (just a finger held up saying “no” was the first thing he reacted to.) so worried it will be counter productive. we haven’t done it yet but I am seriously at the end of my rope. I grew up with a dog trainer. I have never been fearful nor have a problem setting boundaries of coddling… but so far I have all these mixed messages where I don’t want to “damage the relationship” with any of the strong corrections but no one in positive reinforcement has given me ANY REAL TOOLS to tell him this biting isn’t ok!! Now we are entering adolescence and have been attacked multiple times a day this week- (and it often happens when we are exercising him so not pent up energy. ) I also have a young child who has been bit multiple times… so what would you do in this situation?